Magnesium Flint Stick

Winter wrote:

Sorry to drag this topic back from the dead, but I was wondering how you personally shave the magnesium off (If you use one) I've seen people hold the block vertical and scrape downward with the blade, which takes foevever and scatters fairly large shavings about. I personally lay the block on its side and scape side to side with the blade perpendicular to the block. It makes lots of little shavings fast and if you're careful, they won't even fall off the top of the block and can be put exactly where needed.

That would probably work alot better. Smile

I learned a lot about these things today. The spark is small compared to a large firesteel like I have. And also it doesn't take long to eat away at the flint. It's better than nothing and they cost a dime a dozen, but don't expect too much out of one.

And no, you can't get a dozen of them for a dime, but they are cheap, nontheless. Wink

Hmmm....this is interesting. On my first try, the magnesium was shaving off in small curls(like wood). I had a fairly substantial pile, and after the second strike, POOF! It was gone. Shocked

They just went up in a cloud of smoke. Confused

I expected a white, hot flame. It did get my tinder going, but if it hadn't been right next to it, that wouldn't have been the case. It was more short lived than cattail fluff.

So, I tried using more pressure when shaving the magnesium. Aha! Now I was getting a lot of small chunks instead of wispy shavings. This gave me a denser pile than with the shavings. I had a larger pile than the first, and after the second strike...POOF! Shocked

Up in smoke again. What about the white, hot flame I read about?! Confused

^ Hm ?
That sounds wierd. I have never had mine go up in smoke ??
This stuff burns at 3000 Degress, mine has always been a intence white burn.

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I was baffled as well. I had a larger than needed pile on the second try, but I still didn't get that classic white flame.

I might try it again soon....

i have never had a nice white flame, always a puff despite some generious piles of shaved mag... I though tthat was just how it was because it was shaved.. i've seen sticks of magnesium burn with ultraviolet light back in highschool tho..

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Mine always give that nice white flame too... weird...

~SK

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yeah i found that it always burnt up way too fast so i made the switch to a fero-rod..

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	Survivor Kid 909 wrote:
	Mine always give that nice white flame too... weird... ~SK

I think I might know why. Is yours a Coghlan's? Mine is a Doan. That could be why. You'd think that magnesium would be magnesium, but I guess different manufacturers use different materials. It shows a white hot flame on the packaging....

If that's all I get out of it, it's coming out of the pack. Confused

You think they'd give me my money back? I know it was just $4.95, but I wanted to see that classic white flame. Sad

Looks like the firesteel is going to stay as my primary fire starting tool. Cool

I think you're right FF9. I bought a ferro rod/Mag stick from an outdoor show one year that was built pretty strong. The mag on that thing was amazing! It didn't take a lot of it and burned more slowly than the Cochilan's sticks. On mine the ferro rod came loose on a trip and I lost it. But thanks to SK I've ordered what I think I need to replace it. But even my Cochlan's doesn't work very well any more.
Sad

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Okay, now I'm completely dumbfounded. I just tried it again last night using the EXACT same technique as the second try, and what do you know....white hot flame. lol

I guess it's going back in the pack. Laughing

And just to be sure, I tried it a fourth time. Once again, white hot flame. Cool

I have no idea why I only got poofs on the first two tries. Maybe the magnesium on the outside doesn't burn as well. Strange...

At least it works now! Very Happy

I have heard before that the outer layers don't work as well. Mine is a Doan also...

~SK

_________________
-Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder's eye on the Last Day.

-Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and proclaiming, "Wow, what a ride!!!"

Well, I guess that explains it. Smile

Now I just need to get out in the woods and test it. Cool

Thanks, guys. Very Happy

I don't have a degree in metalergy other than knowing steel from aluminum and stuff like that, but I wonder if this stuff reacts with the air enough to stop it from working? Kind of an oxidation if you will. I mean look at a rod you haven't used in some time. It's no longer metal looking, it looks dark gray with darker almost black dots all over it. I'm going to go play with mine for a while and see what happens.

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Where the Eagles fly, and the Caribou lie is where I want to be, the Wolf waits there for me.....
-Les Stroud

Yeah, oxidation occurs on the surface, but I was a fair way into the magnesium on the second try. However, I don't have any other explanation.

Where's Winter when ya need him?! Laughing

I have read that some folks, espically those in a salt air environment, have trouble with oxidaion of the mag bar. They claim that coating them with clear fingernail polish helps preserve them.

The packs they are shipped in are not exactly air tight so corosion could start before they are opened.

I generally cut my mag bars in half and drill a new hole in the blank one. They last so long and it takes so little of them that the big bar is excessive.

Talk about cheap!!!

I also buy these bars to remove the striker rod and install the rod in antler tips or nice wood tips for use on the keychain. Looks better than those dinky plastic tabs.

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The outside of the bar does indeed corrode rapidly since magnesium is a very reactive metal. This is far worse if it stays damp, or gets salt on it. In fact, magnesium is the most reactive metal you can reasonably have sitting around. Aluminum is probably second place. but gets a nice hard, protective coat of oxide on it. magnesium does not. Instead it rusts, just like iron would. Once you scrap off the gray (or for iron, sand off the rust) though, you are back to pure metal. If you want a demonstration of it's reactivity, drop the bar in vinegar. The bubbles are hydrogen gas.

Magnesium is an extremely reactive when hot. It reacts with all the major components of air except argon. It will even continue burning sealed in a block of dry ice, stealing the oxygen away from the carbon dioxide. Youtube has some nice videos of this.

http://www.theodoregray.com/PeriodicTable/Elements/012/index.html

That page indicates that coghlan's is quite pure and so it isn't the composition of the metal that makes the difference. Both are probably a relatively cheap grade of magnesium, since it doesnt need exacting composition for alloy making. The problem must either be that you're using the "rusty" outer gray parts or that your shavings are too fine. The latter is a surface area issue. Try lighting a pile of drains of wheat on fire. Won't get you very far. At most, you'll get a slow burn. Now make a cloud of flour and it can explode it burns so fast (think grain silos).

The same idea applies to magnesium. The smaller and finer your shavings, the more air can get between them. When they hit ignition temperature from a spark, they will react as fast as they can with the air. If you have tiny, whispy bits, you get a poof and it's already burnt up. If they are bigger, thicker, and more compact, it takes time for them to burn all the way through. It's also harder to light them since the heat of a spark gets absorbed into more metal and it may not hit the ignition temperature.

What are flames? When we think of wood burning, the heat generated is actually "cracking" the huge polymers that make up wood into tiny fragments. alcohols, acids, carbon monoxide, and all sorts of hydrocarbons boil off, mix with air and burn to make carbon dioxide. The flame is this stream of gasses burning. The yellow in the flame is light emitted by extremely hot carbon particles (soot) resulting from an incomplete burn. The heat thrown off by the burning gas breaks up more of the wood and the reaction is self sustaining as long as it has an air supply.

Big pieces of magnesium are the same way. The outside burns and the heat given off is enough to boil off magnesium as a gas, which ignites in air. This is the flame you see. The particles of magnesium oxide are what emit the bright white light (akin to true limelight). if you make the piece too big though, the heat gets absorbed by the metal too fast for magnesium to boil off. The surface crusts over with magnesium oxide, cuts off air supply, and it doesn't burn.

So, sciencey bits aside, how do you get more than a poof out of magnesium:

1: scrape off the gray parts first until you have shiny metal.
2: make larger scrapings than you have been. You may need some very fine shavings to get the larger ones started if they are too hard to light.

I too cut my bars in half. A full bar is unnecessary, but the half rod is a tiny bit harder to strike the ferrocerium rod on. Note: when sawing a bar, clean the magnesium filings away before the saw hits ferrocerium rod or they will ignite on you. I've...erm...had things ignite from this...nothing expensive fortunately. I just didn't think of this the first time I did it.

Last edited by Winter on Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:35 pm; edited 1 time in total

	Winter wrote:
	You rang?

Yes.

Thanks. That was the complicated scientific answer I was looking for. Surprised