Your hand gun, fellas.

Hey guys,

I've been waiting for my Restricted firearms license to go, and I've been looking af some handguns in the mean time.

I was wondering, those who own any, if you could go back, and buy from the ones avalible today, which would you go for?

I've been looking at alot that are avalible in canada, they range from Norico, glock, ruger, S&W, Bul and Sig just to name a few.

Does anyone have any experience with the norico models?
Specificly the np-22 and 34 models,(sig remakes)

Im looking for a solid, reliable shooter, preferable in 9mm, but .45 and .357/.38 special would be nice. I like DA over SA and DAO, but im still open to SA. Im Also waiting on my wilderness carry which will allow me to take this hiking and camping for personal pertection, so not overly large would be nice.

These are the spec's I need to stay in according to canadian law:
Nothing under a 104 mm barrel
Max MAG capacity of 10 Rnds
no silencers, HP rounds.

Thanks for any help guys,

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Qoute: LONGBOW50, from bladeforums:
The boy scouts motto takes on a new meaning when fate steps in and makes you feel like a dummy.

What you should do is try and make sure the gun "fits your hand". The reason being that while a lot of guns are just as reliable as other guns, the feel can make a world of difference.

I know when I had my 1911 it didn't feel right, now I have a XDM by springfield armory and it just fits my hand like a glove. Once I got my grip down I was able to peg a little 6 inch metal disc from about 10 yards away 4 out of 5 shots. Also the XDM is dependable as a glock which is one of the most dependable auto's in the world.

So I would say see if you can find a place to let you feel a few glocks and sigs and see which one you prefer the "feel" of and buy that one. I think if you want a smaller gun for carrying in the woods try the smaller glock since you won't be losing any rounds since you are restricted to 10 it seems.

Also glocks/XD/XDM are a piece of cake to clean and maintain, I can take my XDM apart and put it back together blind folded if I had to.

9mm is not generally considered a "wilderness caliber". The round does not have the power rating needed for "emergencies" involving four legged critters. It is called the parabellum for a reason. It is a folk cartridge. You use it to kill/wound folks.

In war a wound is better than a kill, for everyone. The wounded guy requires a medic to keep him alive and 4 people to carry him away. He gets to live and show people his scar. A dead guy gets stepped over until the misson is completed.

In the wilderness a wounding round is unacceptable. The 9mm is not enough and is not recomended for wilderness use anywhere but on computer forums.

My personal recomendation is a .357 revolver. Mid size frame, like the S&W K or L frame. It has the maximum power most inexperienced pistol shooters can handle. It also will use any 38 spl ammo you can shove in it if you need to work up to the full .357 loading. It will be more accurate than 99% of the wuto pistols on the market.

If I could only have one pistol that would be the one I chose.

It is not what I carry, but it is what I would recomend and choose for myself in your situation.

It has always amazed me that for years the police departments screamed they needed more power than the .38 spl gave them, so what did they get? 9mm autos that have less power than the .38 spl they were trying to upgrade! Spray and pray folks, just spray and pray.

Other opinions will varry. They have the right to be just as wrong as I am.

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SMILE AND WAVE BOYS, SMILE AND WAVE

Since you're looking for solid & reliable , one consideration would be the Ruger Blackhawk in .357 Mag.
It's a single action only revolver so if that suits your needs you won't get a more solid,reliable sidearm than that one.

It's not as high tech looking as a Glock or a Smith,but it's a real shooter that will last you for years to come.

Cliff

LDS wrote:

9mm is not generally considered a "wilderness caliber". The round does not have the power rating needed for "emergencies" involving four legged critters. It is called the parabellum for a reason. It is a folk cartridge. You use it to kill/wound folks.

In war a wound is better than a kill, for everyone. The wounded guy requires a medic to keep him alive and 4 people to carry him away. He gets to live and show people his scar. A dead guy gets stepped over until the misson is completed.

In the wilderness a wounding round is unacceptable. The 9mm is not enough and is not recomended for wilderness use anywhere but on computer forums.

My personal recomendation is a .357 revolver. Mid size frame, like the S&W K or L frame. It has the maximum power most inexperienced pistol shooters can handle. It also will use any 38 spl ammo you can shove in it if you need to work up to the full .357 loading. It will be more accurate than 99% of the wuto pistols on the market.

If I could only have one pistol that would be the one I chose.

It is not what I carry, but it is what I would recomend and choose for myself in your situation.

It has always amazed me that for years the police departments screamed they needed more power than the .38 spl gave them, so what did they get? 9mm autos that have less power than the .38 spl they were trying to upgrade! Spray and pray folks, just spray and pray.

Other opinions will varry. They have the right to be just as wrong as I am.

parabellum = if you want peace, make war

I understand your point, it is always nice to have a bigger cartridge when you have something huge coming at you. It just doesn't seem like there is many creatures a .357, .40, .45, .44mag will take down that a 9mm can't with the same shot placement. I guess it all depends on what your trying to take down, a 9mm is going to do about as much as a .45 or a .44mag will do against say a bear under most circumstances in my opinion. I can't think of a animal that would likely come after you that a 9mm can't take down that a 357mag/45/44mag will take down with the same shot placement.

It's all about having the weapon handy, ready, being able to pull it up quickly and being comfortable and familiar with the weapon to get the right shot placement. If your not use to firing your hand cannon (say .44mag) then it's not going to do you as much good as a 9mm that you feel comfortable with and fire all the time.
http://www.lesjones.com/posts/002347.shtml
Here is some study information that shows even with a firearm you are very likely to get hurt in a bear attack
http://www.absc.usgs.gov/research/brownbears/attacks/bear-human_conflicts.htm
Here is some information that shows that Bear Spray is much more effective than any firearm, but they still recommend having the bear spray and firearm.
http://www.absc.usgs.gov/research/brownbears/pepperspray/pepperspray.htm

Now I have never had to use any gun for self defense, but I don't think many people have either.

As with most things it's about shot placement as you went on saying how 9mm wasn't good for police to use, but I will completely disagree. You can take someone down with a lot less of a weapon than a 9mm if you hit them in the right spot. Just as if you hit someone in the wrong spot with a 9mm, or a .45 you won't do yourself any good. There is a ton of examples of people getting hit with 9mm to the chest/body/groin and going down very quickly. The 9mm mainly is talked about in a negative fashion due to the Hollywood shootouts a few years back, but even a 44mag wouldn't have done any good due to the body armor the bank robbers were wearing. But again any gun (even a .22lr) would have taken them down with the right shot placement to get around there armor.

And yes you might need one shot to take down the animal say a wolf thats attacking you, and one shot to kill the animal but I think the same could be said for any cartridge with the exception of maybe a 10ga, or some such. Again it's all about shot placement.

There are examples of animals such as bear's having multiple rifle rounds inside there bodies when they are killed, while the same rifle round or less could kill them if it hit in the right spot. For example from my understanding you want to aim lower than the top of a bear skull because the top will just cause the round to bounce off (regardless of the caliber of pistol). While say a 9mm or larger to the right spot on the skull will kill it, just as a 9mm to the shoulder can break the shoulder and disable the bear.

My #1 reason for 9mm is that it's a NATO round for pistol's which means there is a huge volume of 9mm cartridges available out there, and even in a SHTF situation you could come by 9mm's a lot easier than you will a .357 mag. I base most of my gun purchases off of what cartridges I can find cheaply and in quantity now, and what I will be able to find in a SHTF situation.

.40, .357mag and all those less used cartridges are hard to stockpile buying locally because they will only buy one case, and there also a lot more expensive. I use to be able to buy 100 9mm rds for 20 bucks and still can. If you buy .45 or something similar it's going to cost the same for about 1/2 the rounds, and to me being able to stock up on ammo is a lot more important than having a slightly bigger bullet.

Now I will say one thing, my grandfather (who has used a gun for self protection and protection of his property against people) swears by his revolver. The reason being since he runs his own store he ALWAYS has a revolver in his pocket and the reason he said was because he could keep it there for years ready to go and even with lint and whatever if he pulled it out and needed to use it he knows it would work. You can't say the same for a lot of semi-auto's which need a lot of maintenance weekly/monthly or at least yearly depending on how often you shoot. Also with a revolver if something happens (like a bad cartridge that doesn't fire, or lint covering the primer so it doesn't fire) you can just pull the trigger again and the next round will be rotated and fired, with a semi-auto you need to rack the slide which takes time.

I am a lot more worried as well about 2 legged critters than the 4 legged kind. There is a lot more people around than bears almost no matter where you are. With that said, 9mm is the smallest caliber I would consider for any self defense hand gun, and the only reason to have a small (say .22) would be to kill say a chicken or something instead of chasing it around.

And as I said earlier I have never used any weapon in self defense, but always remember your BEST weapon for your own defense is you mind. If your paying attention to your surroundings and what is going on your a lot less likely to be in a situation where you need to use any weapon for self defense.

So my recommendation is the following:

1) Make sure you feel a wide variety of guns to see which "fits your hand"

2) Make sure it's not so heavy that you won't carry it any time possible

3) Make sure you test the caliber (and hopefully the gun you want to purchase) to make sure it doesn't kick to much, or that it "scares you". I know people who have fire more guns than I will ever touch and will be "scared" by a gun before the kick, or because it's not reliable and therefore will cause it to jam. (I was the only one of my family to fire 1 whole clip (and then another) through a 10mm when I was a kid without getting a jam, they thought I was lucky but I think they were "limp wristing it" because they were scared of the gun).

4) Make sure it's at least a 9mm if you want to use it for self defense as that is normally considered the smallest "self defense round", but I don't feel you have to have anything larger myself.

5) If it's something your going to be carrying in a pocket, or a dirty environment and go a long time without cleaning you can't beat a revolver but if you want a semi-auto go with a Glock or XD (springfield armory) or XDM they have all passed horrendous 20000 round tests done by gun mag's that show they are the most reliable semi-autos on the market. They did everything from drop them on cement, bury them in sand, freeze them etc and they both had 0 malfunctions.

But like I said I am not expert, and I can be wrong as well.

EDIT:
Found a link to a 69 yo man who stopped a bear from attacking him with a knife

Also I have read up, basically a bears skull is so thick no pistol round will go through it most of the time, so sadly if your in bear territory you better carry a 12ga with some slugs.

http://www.adn.com/bearattacks/story/204002.html

So don't shoot them in the head! You have been advocating good shot placement, right.

A .22 and good shot placement have the same argument.

Expense of the rounds? Come on now? If expense is the deciding factor go for the .22LR.

So It's settled then. The guy needs a .22.

THERE IS NO ADEQUITE PISTOL CARTRIDGE FOR GRIZZLY!

The point is that 9mm is not adequite for most small/medium game! Some states bar it from use as a hunting round completely.(I am not sure about Canada)

I have used pistols in self defense, as well as rifles, shotguns and various other folk weapons. The 105 howitzer rules, but is difficult to get into the holster.

The military uses the 9mm only because NATO treaty requires such. Both the Army and the Marines have been begging for their .45 back for years. Many of the nation's defense/investigative agencies quickly abandoned the 9mm for the .40cal. There was good reason fir that decision.

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SMILE AND WAVE BOYS, SMILE AND WAVE