Shotgun dilema

Well I went looking at guns with my friend the other day. It got me thinking what I want to buy for my first gun. It'll probably be after I'm done with my Air Force training. I'm pretty sure I want to get a shotgun. It's between a BPS, and an O/U double barrel. Obviously the double barrel is much more expensive. I did like the feel of the double barel much better. I'm not sure what I want to spend, but for the sake of this thread forget the price. I would use it a lot for sporting clays, and probably bird hunting. I'd get 12 ga., and I wouldn't use it to shoot slugs. What do you guys think is the "best" choice?

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I used to own a beretta silver pigeon (very expensive gun) in over and under .12 guage. I currently own a Browning BPS in .12 guage 3" magnum.

The over and under was heavy, since it had two barrels.. and the modle i had used two fixed chokes. This limited your options as to what shot you were going to use as steel must be used in a more open choke then other non-toxic loads, and lead if you are hunting upland rather than migratory. It was a great shotgun, I wish I still had it. But if i had the choise i'd buy the BPS instead.

My BPS... man oh man. That thing drives shot like you would not believe. I have taken geese and ducks at a good distance using the steel full (lead modified) choke and a good load. With lead and the lead only full choke it is lethal on upland birds, rabbits, anything. I have shot slugs from it and man let me tell you the gun lets you know it is there. kicks like a muel but it shoots them pretty strait. Mine fires a few inches high at 50 yards out of the lead improved cylinder (steel modified) choke. It came with the invector choke system which means you got a lead only full, a lead modified/steel full, and a lead improved cylinder/steel modified chokes. They are ealisy interchanged and I have fired a lot of rounds without one coming lose. For shooting at clay pigions and using the improved cylinder choke i went 45/50 last time i went.. which is pretty darn good. Another thing I like about it is the fact that it is bottom ejecting for unloading. I am a left handed shooter and not having shells fly cross my face as I shoot increases my reload rate.

Another thing... 3 shels instead of 2 is a great option ESPECIALLY if you are hunting migratory birds..

Finally, one thing that the BPS is known for... If you have too much oil in the loading mechanism they have been said to jam up when trying to unload spent rounds in really cold weather. Solution, thinner oil and less of it.. I have never encountered this problem yet and have used it in pretty darn cold weather.

So, My advice... Try to get out and shoot both guns. If that is not an option I am gonna suggest the BPS as I love mine and tell ayone that wants one that they should get one.

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as for the whole "shooting slugs" idea for shotguns... they all kick super hard and dont have the range of a rifle, nor the accuracy. they do hit some hard, but so do rifles... the bps, well mine anyway, shoots them well, but if you are gonna be slug hunting you are probably going to want to use a semi-auto anyway... as they capture some of the gas created when you shoot to work the mechanism and generally don't kick as hard.....

Hope this all helps, feel free to pm me any questions.

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Remington 870 express, even though it's not a double barrell. Rugged, well manufactured, and cheap enough. It's the gun I have and I love it to death. It got the most votes for best all-around shotgun in field and stream if I remember right a couple years back. I also like the fact that the outside is a matte color and that it's not smooth, giving you a better grip on your gun as you're climbing over logs and under trees and such.

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/model_870/model_870_express.asp

The real question is are you looking for semi-auto or pump action? The 870 only comes in pump action as far as I know.

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BXC wrote:

Remington 870 express, even though it's not a double barrell. Rugged, well manufactured, and cheap enough. It's the gun I have and I love it to death. It got the most votes for best all-around shotgun in field and stream if I remember right a couple years back. I also like the fact that the outside is a matte color and that it's not smooth, giving you a better grip on your gun as you're climbing over logs and under trees and such.

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/model_870/model_870_express.asp

The real question is are you looking for semi-auto or pump action? The 870 only comes in pump action as far as I know.

I'd rather have a pump than a semi-auto. I shoot left handed, so the only pump I'd probably want is a BPS because it's ambedextrious. I don't really want to get a left handed gun, because you're limited as to what you can buy for it. Confused

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the 870 is only pump.... but the 11-87 is semiauto Twisted Evil

I don't think you would have much problems shooting a "normal" ( Wink

) 870 or even a Mossberg 500 shotgun. I own both as do all my family members and they are great guns. The options for them are almost endless.

As for slugs, yeah I carry all my shotguns with a couple slugs handy, but I don't ussually use them. I built a gun only to shoot slugs, but its pretty heavy so that helps with the recoil, and it's still only good out to maybe a hundred yards at the very most.

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Where the Eagles fly, and the Caribou lie is where I want to be, the Wolf waits there for me.....
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	Mystik Spiral wrote:
	I'd rather have a pump than a semi-auto. I shoot left handed, so the only pump I'd probably want is a BPS because it's ambedextrious. I don't really want to get a left handed gun, because you're limited as to what you can buy for it.

Hope you read my comments above. If I were in your shoes (buying a new shotgun) I would buy another BPS. My dad shoots right handed and makes the same claim (he loves my gun and often times during goose season I will wake up and it's gone!)

As for the 870. I used to own one in .410. It was my first pump action and I loved it. If you were going to buy an 870(it really doesn't make a lot of difference when you are shooting right/vs/left in my opinion which is based on 16 years of hunting/shooting) I would spring for the "wingmaster" 870. Nicer wood and generally a nicer looking gun... at least I think so.

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I would sugest the 870, for different reasons.

If you get the nice Wingmaster action you will have a nice, rugged gun.

It is cheaper than the Browning, and just as good.

there are tons of accessories available for the 870 that are not available for the Browning.

stocks of all kinds
extended mag tubes
Barrels to fit every need

you can use it for a bird gun one day and a riot gun the next, then mount a rifled barrel and scope and put slugs into 4" @ 100 meters. They even make a black powder, muzzle loading barrel for the 870!

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	LDS wrote:
	I would sugest the 870, for different reasons It is cheaper than the Browning, and just as good.

Remington 870 express range from specials at around 330 canadian, with the 3" remingont 870 at 408.99 https://www.cabelas.ca/index.cfm?pageID=71&section=1187&section2=1283&section3=1488&ID=4667

BPS is 566.99 Canadian at cabelas, https://www.cabelas.ca/index.cfm?pageID=79&section=&ID=453

Remington Wingmaster 870 is 834.99 Canadian at cabelas, https://www.cabelas.ca/index.cfm?pageID=71&section=1187&section2=1283&section3=1488&ID=4671

You are talking about 150 dollars more for a much nicer looking gun (walnut vs birch stock) that does not fire spent rounds past your face (which is an issue for some people). The wingmaster is, as stated, the most expensive by a few hundred dollars.

	LDS wrote:
	there are tons of accessories available for the 870 that are not available for the Browning. stocks of all kinds extended mag tubes Barrels to fit every need

As for barrel/choke combinations... You can purchase anything from an extra full turkey choke to a rifled choke for the BPS as well as the remington modles. You can also purchase fully rifled barrels for the BPS and alternate length replacement barels.

	LDS wrote:
	you can use it for a bird gun one day and a riot gun the next, then mount a rifled barrel and scope and put slugs into 4" @ 100 meters. They even make a black powder, muzzle loading barrel for the 870!

This can all be done with the BPS as well. They have a high capasity security gun on the market now with parts that will fit the reciever. As for putting slugs 4" @ 100 yards, here is a picture that I took with shells put into the slug holes @ 100 yards, bead sight, improved cylinder choke, rifled slugs. The two holes left in the target were in fact covering each other slightly. Because of this one shell is not push'd in as far as the other in the hole, and kind of on an angle.
...ignore the rifle holes

And just for the record. The way people are talking up the remingtons and not giving any credit to the browning says to me that they are saying that one is strictly better than the other. For one they are completely ignoring the fact that the person interested does not want spend shells passing by their face. Sure the remington comes in left hand but the person who was interested said that they are not sold on the idea of buying strictly a left handed gun. In all of my comments I do not deny anything said about the remingtons but I do feel the need to balance out this thread by giving credit to the browning. A gun is only as good as the shooter, the conditions, the load of the ammo, and the intended use of the load.

Both are good shotguns. But if I was buying one, I'd buy another BPS before I'd buy another 870. That's mainly a personal preferance though.

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Hm ?. Thread seems to be all over the place really.
I see all points, & i have owned shot guns myself. Is 1 better than the other ?
Its all what " you " think, not the gun. No doubt there are people here that have way more " shot gun " time than i have.
Its what you ! are used to and know. Ive owned many assault rifles & long arms but only few shot guns.
What is better ?? ........... its all in the person holding it & what they want to do. Cool

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Just depends on what you want, and what you like, its your preferances. Just make sure to reasearch all options before buying one!

HTH

~SK

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^'Nuff said. Cool

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	Mystik Spiral wrote:
	What do you guys think is the "best" choice?

Yep, everyone's "best choice" will be slightly different.

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At the end of the day what it all comes down to is the gun will fire where it is pointed. Modern guns are available in a rediculous amount of choke/barrel combinations that react accordingly with specific shot choices. IF you can, shoulder both and see what one you think feels best for you.

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I went to a shotgun class here in Arizona put on in part by a man names Clint Smith. He told us what to bring which was a whole lot of ammo, and a shotgun of our choice. I took one of my basic riot guns, and my tricked out 870 just in case high speed fancy gadget guns were the norm for that class. After seeing the entire range of shotguns from riot guns like mine to bird guns more or less the instructor brought out a single shot 12ga and put most of us to shame with that gun. There were guys there with expensive Bennelli M3 Shotguns that are both Semi-auto and "pump" should it be needed. And this guy with a New England Firearms single shot was doing just as good as they were. I was really impressed. Get the one you like, and learn it well. Cool

Edit :

Hey I found a video of the guy, I guess he is in charge of Thunder Ranch! Shocked

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhgwHQCJwWw

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Where the Eagles fly, and the Caribou lie is where I want to be, the Wolf waits there for me.....
-Les Stroud

^ Great vid clip Azarcher Cool

Ive always liked the over/under vented shot guns. It would be my choice my time to buy.
Why ? cause ive always wanted to get into waterfoul hunting.

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A Knifeless Man is a Lifeless Man
Canadian To The Core
Carry Less by Knowing More
Knowledge Weighs Nothing

Mystik Spiral wrote:

Well I went looking at guns with my friend the other day. It got me thinking what I want to buy for my first gun. It'll probably be after I'm done with my Air Force training. I'm pretty sure I want to get a shotgun. It's between a BPS, and an O/U double barrel. Obviously the double barrel is much more expensive. I did like the feel of the double barel much better. I'm not sure what I want to spend, but for the sake of this thread forget the price. I would use it a lot for sporting clays, and probably bird hunting. I'd get 12 ga., and I wouldn't use it to shoot slugs. What do you guys think is the "best" choice?

If you haven't already picked one up yet, I would say choose the one that "feels" the best to you. I don't know what brand or model of O/U shotgun you were looking at, but the Browning BPS is a winner. You want a gun for sporting clays and hunting, and either will do the trick. As Daffy said, the O/U may be slightly heavier but not by much I would think. Look at the need you are filling and then "shoulder" both guns again. Pick the one you like the best and be happy in your choice. Just be sure that the shotgun you choose has interchangeable chokes instead of fixed chokes.

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I am a left handed shooter and I own a 870 express super mag and it doesn't cause me problems with the spent cases. To be honest I didn't even notice or think about it.

I like it a lot more than the Rem 1100 I use to have as it's so much lighter, and though people say the 1100 weight would make less recoil it seems the 870 has a lot less recoil. This may be due to me getting ready to pump the gun for the next shot, or something else but I love it. I would be a second to 3 seconds between shots my 1100, with the 870 it's about 1/2 a second. The first time I fired it I was very impressed and glad I picked it up considering it was so cheap.

BTW I got the express super mag for 250 bucks, which is very cheap, and it will fire any 12ga ammo you find. The reason I like this is in a SHTF type scenario you might not be able to pick and choose your ammo, and 12ga is very popular so it would be nice to be able to pick up a 203/4 bird shot and load it just as well as a 3-1/2 magnum.

Never fired a O/U gun but there not as good as the side-by-side guns from what I hear unless you get a import from england where there use to making the O/U but there very expensive.

I am looking to pick up a side-by-side 12ga sometime so I won't have to even worry about the moving part of the pump.